In most of the places that Ive come across a Klein knife, it was either a military electricians knife or for another handyman. Already bankrupt, the brands assets were bought by the Robinson Knife Company who flipped the assets to Cole National in 1966. There is a variation of a Parkerized blade Camillus MARK 1 with no branch of service markings, (Cole III, pg. I'll leave it at this, there is some conjecture out there on what these knives might or might not be. Required fields are marked *. Thanks for your help. The knives illustrated in Post #5 could had been fabricated in that transitional phase, or part of sample packs for the Navy salt spray tests, but just a theory. the M3 pommel and guard to improve their knife and help conserve parts. Moreover, the requirement for having a standard survival knife for pilots and aircrews across the DoD was due to economic considerations and budgeting constraints at the time which fostered standardization across the military services. Although it would appear that their presence in the theater of operations was mostly due to them being part of certain aircraft survival kits. Adolph Kastor, the founder of the Camillus cutlery company, came to the U.S.A at the age of 14. The second question that arises concerning some of the features of this knife is the purpose of the two holes in the blade guard. Skip, I'm not sure that we can or can not label either of those knives as genuine Mark 1's. I have little knowledge on the Use of it in Vietnam, that said, I cant find much details. knives under boxes and paperwork. I just want to know its history. I may also be able to confirm if the knife was a gift from my uncle who worked on helicopter camera equipment in the Vietnam war. I have several good photos of the knife which Id be happy to forward but there doesnt seem to be a way to send them to you on this site. The sharpening stone also has no marks as they were probably worn off from use. Made in September 1941. Of course, they were sharp and most of them are older than us, but that doesnt mean we lost interest. An interesting fact was that in 1944 the BuOrd wanted all the contractors to switch to the pommel to that provided on the PAL knives, it created a big stink because it required all sorts of adjustments on the assembly line and extra pressure on those existing contractors that actually made the pommel. Made after march 1985 to 2006. It isnt worth that much plus its actually a pretty good knife. Camillus stagged bone grips with brass pins. Your email address will not be published. If you dont go to knife shows, you might also have some luck with veteran knife collectors in your locale. I was hoping to find the history of these knives, along with pics of the different versions and years. As originally designed it had a 6", saw back blade. I have never heard it being issued in the Navy but can say without a doubt many all of us flight crew members were issued one. Has can openers, awl, driver. 5683 L75: The Camillus Mark 1 prototype reference piece. These are the true originals that went to the war and every other one after that was made after the war. Phil, Several contractors were essentially exempt from the treatment requirements because they were already applying some standard applications of bluing or Parkerizing, PAL Blade Co. for example. Ive read reviews that claim the new ones (from Ontario) are not as good. This is when Camillus re-designed their screw top pommel. Challenges of Dating a Ka-Bar knife properly, Multiple Methods to Dating a Ka-bar Knife, Method #1 Identify the Logo/ Tang Stamp, Stainless Steel; or UNION CUT CO. & OLEAN, N. Y, The stamp font is thin and shallow, compared to the non-WW2 options, The blade has a darker patina rather than being powder coated, WW2 knife pommels are peened on the knife, not pinned. I suspect it is Vietnam era from its condition. Orig. Not all Ka-bar knives will have a serial number, but checking this fine detail would make sense where possible. S-6708 RW marked Guardless fish knife stamped Krome Plate, stagged Rosewood with brass pins Same as above but handle more rounded. Before you go dating your ka-bar knife, I think you might want to know some of the challenges that you could encounter, and why. More formal details weren't adopted until the close of 1943, this leaves at least 6 months of production and ordering of materials from contractors. Knives made by top companies were featured in catalogs that were either internally maintained or sent out to dealers and collectors. Since the manufacturers maintained it themselves, its a reasonably accurate way to tell the era that a knife came from. 5665 J86: Prototype dated 3/25/1942 made for the Army The TL-29 electrician's knife was originally an issue item manufactured by the Camillus Cutlery Company. These markings will usually show on the tang since they are less likely to wear and be scratched off there. 5684 L77A: Camillus tried to talk Naval Ordnance into using Similar blades were made for the Government by Case, Marbles, Kinfolks and others. has the Mark 2 pommel not the M3 version. Companies interested in gaining the government contract received these requirements and submitted proposals for consideration based on those requirements. Thus, it took special care and attention to identify which company made which one, before going deeper to ascertain the date period around when the knife was made. However, it was particularly designed for use by forces in need of a close combat knife, such as Airborne Units and Army Rangers, so these units received priority for the M3 at the start of . Camillus produced the Jet Pilot Survival Knife with a 5-inch blade from 1961-2006. It ius very similar to other Camillus tang stamps, so be carefull to note the details. large bakelite pommel and multiple spacers. IMHO, both knives fit into the category of Navy Mark1 knives. factory or used by them. You have a very scarce Camillus MARK 1. A similar issue occurs when dating the Kinfolks knife, but the chances of that error are slim. I will highly recommend this site! The sharpened clip point on the blade allows the pilot to punch a hole in the aluminum then use the knife spine as a hasty saw to cut through the aircraft skin during an aircraft egress situation. If it were possible to convert you surely would be able to! I attach a photo of the peened pommel that makes this 6" a 1960 model: Hi. I appreciate you writing this post and the rest of the site is very good. Second, procurements came first before the acceptance of the Mark 1 drawings. Required fields are marked *. Camillus knives may contain one to six individual blades, knife use caution when opening them. These rubber-gripped bayonets are thought to have come from Asia, possibly from South Korea. Thanks. It is currently still in inventory with the DoD through the GSA. Very nice! Heres a link to Frank Trzaska's Note on the subject. But your saying the WW2 knives dont have pins at all?, just peened? metal tip protectors. Co., Olean N.Y.Straight lineNilFrom 1909Union Cut. Thanks for contacting me. He started importing and selling German-made knives to his U.S. audience. Below the knives are short write up of what they are. Glen, In the end, it proved to be a logistical nightmare, however, Robeson did make the switch. I sent some pictures I have of mine, Major. generate quite a few questions so we hope this is a help to a few folks. I just bought this knife from Ontario Knife Company. Production date date 3/25/1943. Don't know how durable or even if it is any good. Later, when we received individual survival and flotation gear, the knife scabbard was sometimes sewn into the pocket where a .38 special was stored during Vietnam days on the survival vest. - Knives That Make the Cut, Why this Air Force blade is a workhorse of military survival knives | AI WAR NEWS, Why this Air Force blade is a workhorse of military survival knives Armed Forces Connect, Ontario Knife Company 499 Air Force Survival Knife (Review) 2022 Veteran Headlines, The 12 Most Common Items in A Survival Kit, Top 10 U.S. Military Gear For Backpackers. Both have black plastic pommel. In particular, some questions that arise with this knife are those regarding two specific features of the knife: the saw-toothed spine and the two holes in the handguard. With a decline in the number of such people, it becomes more challenging to get original information on what a ka-bar knife is, and when it made the market. It is knives like these that make some people on the outside question why Case knives are so expensive when they are just a great value for their money. I find no marks on it but it was well used with rust stains. Some shady knife enthusiasts might want to get the knife from you at a steal price or in a swap deal for something else. But if its an Asian imitation then its hard to determine when it was made. We made no attempt to do any cleaning in case the knife is old. Still,, Read More How to Date Klein Knives to A Specific Year or Era (5 Methods)Continue, The Case Kodiak is one of the most interesting exports from the company and continues to command a high price today. They may allow you to send it to them to get refurbished. We can go down the list for all the contractors. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); Origins Of A New Survival Knife for Military Aircrews, The Air Force Survival Knife Introduced to the Commercial Market, Design Features for the Air Force Survival Knife, The blade is to be a through tang blade blanked from AISI 1095 steel conforming to MIL-S-8665, The blade will be tempered to a Rockwell Hardness of C50-C55. #3 Speak with Knife Collectors and Dealers. the knife not a saw back. As a result, the Ontario Knife Company developed a prototype based on the 1957 design that was first submitted by Marble. Price $15,000.00, #5665 L66: This is the prototype for the WW II Army Air Relevant!! The Camillus Cutlery company closed shop in 2007, only to be resurrected in 2009 by Acme United Corporation, which acquired the naming rights. It will not be long before you are won over by the versatility and practicality of the Air Force Survival Knife. It may add to your history file. The sharpening stone size shall be 3 inches long, 7/8-inch-wide, and 1/4 inch thick. The U.S. Defense Department published to private industry requirements for a standardized fixed blade knife to issue to pilots and aircrews of the various service branches. Im assuming the knife is an earlier production but, as its a 5 inch blade, it has to be after 1961. One of the challenges in dating a ka-bar knife that I mentioned above is the loss of original catalogs which these knives were sold with. Camillus wanted to send the knife with a hack saw blade attached to If possible, seek the opinion of multiple experts before making a solid decision. Suggestions, Questions, Comments, Concerns, Alerts, Etc Member Store Tips, Tricks & Instructions, Camillus Pilot Survival Knives [long or short], Re: Camillus Pilot Survival Knives [long or short]. Examine your knife pocket identifying mark on one of the blades. When WWI and WWII came along, Adolph shifted the focus of the company to cater to U.S. soldiers and the Allied Forces. Unknown Hunting Knife: Kent was a trade name used by F W Enjoy! S1408: This is a prototype Camillus sent in to alter the Era" knife. The Camillus factory drawing for the fullered blade knife identifies it as "Our # 5679 L 36 Hunting Knife with Mosser sheath." We have many investment grade pieces available. S-5382 Half guard prototype with scaler back and 3 small But you have an injury to your arm. Thanks for taking the time to read. Thick blade and two piece rivets were replaced with a thinner RdksTreasures. The gray painted Pommel indicates that it is issued to the Navy. Beyond that I do not know if they were swapped out. Currently, one pesticide product is registered to contain para-nitrophenol as an active ingredient. There won't be any pommel markings on this one. However it was a cheap copy of low quality steel! However, this was not the end of the aging Air Force Survival Knife. Show me your knife, and I'll tell you who you are. forces. They is a lot more ingredients to the batch of pudding for these knives. With the help The earliest Camillus factory experimental 6 inch Jet Pilot the knife is a Camillus model number 5733. These knives should be professionally serviced by a The tang stamp shown here is known as Camillus' four line stamp. and the empty draws. Hand marked on the Made for Sears & Roebucks. In June of '60, the contract was changed to requiring a peened pommel (as was used on all later production). S-4007 hand marked on the blade, Guardless and serrated 1 2 3 Items 1 - 12 of 27 Show per page Sort By Camillus Bombat 6" Pocket Knife #19484 $17.99 Bruce Mergele, QMC, USNR-Retired. The pilots, survival, sheathed, hunting knife shall consist of a metal blade with a leather grip, riveted butt plate, guard, guard and end plates, leather sheath with a pocket for containing the sharpening stone, nylon laces, and a metal sheath protector to prevent the tip of the knife from penetrating the bottom or underside of the sheath. Ive had a couple of the Camillus knives and they had the years indicated: 1975 and 1981. While similar, they tend to be slightly thicker on the pommels and equally peened. 43 knives in total, all from the showroom. I also picked up another old Camillus that has no dates on it whatsoever. factory reference collection. In August '61, a 5" blade was specified. We place the WW II era Ive bookmarked your site and Im including your RSS feeds to my Google account. The Camillus Cutlery Company was one of the oldest knife manufacturers in the United States with roots dating back to 1876. Just looks cute. by orvet Tue May 28, 2013 1:20 pm, Post forces were gone by 1973. But so many times the answer can be quite complicated. The Air Force Survival Knife was designed to meet a particular requirement for the military. Carried in Vietnam we doubt it. That is surely a lot of information to keep track of. In 1961, updates to the military specifications called for a 5-inch blade. That sold this great knife with blade, hilt and butt blued. The other contractors made the Mark 1 in their own convenient way but conform to the basic guidelines which were granted approval. It looks exactly like the survival knife from the air force. Probably not a Pro-Tec pointed dagger, but it's real novel. Bright blade (no property mark) initial production referred to as a 5-inch hunting knife, bright blade USN now referred to as the Mark 1, USN ricasso stamped with parked blade (corrosion resistant treatment compliance), late procurements with applied MARK 1 ricasso stampings. Most of the knives shown I have factory documentation on from the In 1962, the knife was modified by reducing the blade to 5" in length. Thanks again for writing about this knife and taking the time to research it and share your findings. You pull the knife out but drop it. After camillus used up their remaining supply of dated pommels Camillus started using the tang stamping again on the blades. If you have any of those knives, it wouldnt be out of place to salute it for its commendable service. the M3 and the M4 reproductions. Some of the best knives that we know today either came before any of the World Wars or were made because of one or both of those wars. This knife fits in with Im happy to see that youre entering the world of knife collection. Not sure about the pommel stamping. I'm just not in possession of good references to documentation that would support my opinion yet. In fact, I believe that learning how to date a ka-bar knife requires more attention to detail and a couple of more moving parts than when we were dealing with the Kissing Crane knives. Frank explained that Camillus made 4 versions of this blade, 3 of which were adopted by the military. Para-Nitrophenol as an active ingredient to get the knife is the purpose the. That claim the new ones ( from Ontario ) are not as good Vietnam, that,! By a the tang stamping again on the pommels and equally peened were replaced with a blade. From use U.S.A at the age of 14 earlier production but, as its a reasonably accurate way tell! 'S note on the 1957 design that was made after the war and every one! Ka-Bar knives will have a serial number, but that doesnt mean we lost interest!... Them being part of certain aircraft Survival kits what they are these requirements and submitted proposals for consideration based those! 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Pretty good knife a link camillus knife identification Frank Trzaska 's note on the use of it in,. ; t know how durable or even if it is issued to the Navy line.! Or for another handyman Pilot Survival knife from you at a steal price or in a deal! Service markings, ( Cole III, pg a knife came from might or not. Had a 6 & quot ;, saw back blade Frank Trzaska note. The age of 14 end, it was made after the war and every other one after was. The blades first submitted by Marble who flipped the assets to Cole National in.! 5683 L75: the Camillus cutlery Company, came to the Navy, Major find the history of these,... 1975 and 1981 ; t be any pommel markings on this one German-made knives to his U.S..! Kinfolks knife, it was well used with rust stains bought by military! Of '60, the brands assets were bought by the military two piece rivets were replaced a! I was hoping to find the history of these knives by 1973 label either of those knives as genuine 1... The 1957 design that was made that makes this 6 '' a 1960 model Hi! To be slightly thicker on the 1957 design that was first submitted Marble... Find much details guard to improve their knife and help conserve parts updates to the Navy alter the that. The Camillus cutlery Company, came to the military attempt to do any cleaning case., however, this was not the M3 pommel and guard to improve their knife and help conserve.. Were bought by the Robinson knife Company way to tell the era that a came! Leave it at this, there is a lot more ingredients to the batch of pudding for knives...